Ducar 125cc clutch engages sometimes, not others

[user 9190]

Trying to revive an old bike. I've replaced almost everything over the last 6 years and have since upgraded to a DHZ Outlaw 160 (which is awesome).

Last night I tried to start the ducar, pulled the clutch lever in and it snapped the end off the cable. The lever arm on the side of the case wasn't moving as far as I remember so I pulled the cover off, lubed everything up and cleaned out a surprising amount of mud. Still no joy so pulled the engine case off and checked the clutch. Cleaned everything and put it back together. Things seemed to work so I played with the screw that sets what ill call the "preload" on the clutch piston/pusher thing. Got it working quite well but when I returned to check it later it was locked again. The cable moves freely, as does the lever on the case but the clutch doesn't engage. If I push it around in 4th it feels like it frees up sometimes and then locks again.

Any bright ideas? Do I need to drain the thing again and pull the clutch apart? If so, what part of it should I be looking at specifically? Would it get better if i ran it for a while and got some hot oil moving through it?

 

[my67xr]

the clutch plates may have worn grooves into the clutch basket? this can make the clutch sticky/notchy.
especially if it has done a lot of hours.
but it could free up a little after running it for a bit too ?
does the clutch work ok in neutral ?

if you need to remove the clutch cover again,
you can lean the bike over onto the l/h side, and take the clutch cover off without draining the oil too.

 

[user 9190]

I didnt try it in neutral to be honest. You mean hold it in and try to kick it and see if theres friction?

Good idea with the oil. I have a clutch basket tool so I could remove it. Cant say its done a lot of hours but its had a lot of new riders on it. It also sits in the garage 6 months between uses. So take the clutch out, dismantle and check for wear? Anything else I should do while I'm in there?

 

[my67xr]

yeah, start the bike up and let it run for a minute or so,
then pull the clutch in and see if it'll let you select a gear.


just remember, the Ducar engines are start in neutral only.
it's been a while since i had my old one,
i'm pretty sure it wouldn't really roll in gear with the clutch pulled in ?


but, if you do take the clutch off, then the plates out.
inside the basket look for any wear where the tabs on the clutch plates sit.
if it is notchy then you would be best off replacing the clutch.


and with the clutch arm adjustment, make sure there is a little free play,
otherwise it can burnout the plates if it is constantly riding on them


check for metal chips etc in the case when you have the clutch cover off,
you pulled the oil strainer out and cleaned it didn't you ?
i found one on ebay the other night and saved the link too in case someone needed one-
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/200905987782?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[user 9190]

Didnt take the strainer out. Where is that hidden away?

Doesnt roll in gear with clutch in (most of the time). Does roll in neutral, no clutch required.

I reckon something within the clutch is preventing it engaging or causing it to stick. Will take it out on the weekend and report back!

 

[my67xr]

when looking at the engine with the clutch cover off, the oil strainer/filter is in the bottom r/h corner of the case

when you pulled the cover off, did the little clutch pusher stay inside the cover ?
part number 8 here

 

[user 9190]

Awesome diagram thanks. The pusher stayed in the cover but i pulled it out and cleaned it. It looks a little worn but i guess thats from the clutch spinning on it.

Didnt take the cover off last night but I did some troubleshooting with the adjustments. Let me know what you think of the below. Perhaps I'm just doing it wrong.

Method 1
Put bike in 1st gear, turn the screw in the clutch cover inwards until the bike started to move when sitting on it and pushing forward. Turn it back a little until wheel is locked. Pull clutch lever in - clutch engages slightly but not enough to be anywhere near useful. Started it and put it in gear and it was trying to ride off on me.

Method 2
Put bike in first, hold clutch lever in, turn screw in clutch cover inward until bike moves freely as you would expect with clutch lever in. Release clutch lever - bike wont start because the clutch is always half engaged.

It just doesnt seem like I can set it to a point where it engages and disengages 100%. Thoughts?

 

[my67xr]

with method 2, can you start the bike in neutral, engage first gear and it doesn't want to move away ?

the bikes' wiring set up wont let it start in gear.


i'm pretty sure you can eliminate this function,
but it will take a decent kick, to start the bike with the clutch pulled in.

have a look at the loom where it comes out of the stator cover on the l/h side of the bike.
follow the stator wiring up to the loom connectors, unplug the Green wire w/red stripe on it.
you need to add a short link wire to join into the green w/red stripe from the main wiring loom,
the other end of the new wire needs to go to a good bare metal earth point on the frame somewhere.




the clutch friction plates could be a bit worn too, it could be part of the problem ?

 

[user 9190]

I was just using method 2 to adjust the clutch to the point where it was fully engaged, then switching back to neutral and kicking without clutch lever pulled. It wouldnt start because the clutch was so engaged that there wasnt enough drive to the cylinder.

Perhaps it's not necessary to have it 100% engaged and rolling freely in first with engine off? How would you go about adjusting the lever and clutch screw if someone had completely taken it out?

 

[my67xr]

is the clutch cable ok ?
adjusted up ok?
if it is stretched , then it may not be pulling the clutch in enough?



i guess if you just have a fiddle with it somewhere inbetween the 2 settings you've tried ?
if you can't get it to work, the next place to look is the clutch itself.


cheapest thing to try first if you have to buy something-
a new clutch cable
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_..._nkw=pit+bike+clutch+cable&_sacat=0&_from=R40

new clutch $40 ex UK,
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110cc-12...K_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item58a1bdd2eb&_uhb=1
or $55 locally
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pit-bike..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item337d084647&_uhb=1



or worst case cenario, a complete brand new Lifan 125 for $250 delivered
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/125cc-LI..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item4179bb1ea1&_uhb=1

 

[user 9190]

Good news! It lives!
Spent some time fiddling with the clutch adjustments then deciding it was locked up. Put the bike on its side (fantastic tip) ripped the clutch out, took all the plates out, cleaned out quite a lot of gunk. There was nothing obviously out of place but I cant say the action felt smooth when I pushed down on it on the bench. Not sure what it should feel like though. Nothing looked obviously worn so stuck it all back together and hey presto, gave it a good push in gear with the clutch in and something felt like it free'd up. Now it seems to operate as it should. Win!

Question for you though. What tool do you use to compress the clutch springs in order to get everything back in there. I ended up using 2 spanners (one on each side of the clutch) and an old air filter pipe clamp between them. McGyver points + 10. There has to be a better way though!?

 

[user 9190]

P.S how long should that process have taken me because it took 4 hours and im rooted! haha

 

[my67xr]

it's been a few years since i've pulled a Ducar front clutch out and apart,
but to reassemble it, i used a piece of 3.5" pipe, was pretty much a perfect fit just inside the basket
i sat it all together on the bench and put the circlip in, then the pipe on top of that
and used a block of wood and hammer to tap it together.

but i reckon you'd be able to get it done in just over an hour if you had everything there and ready to go.


from memory,
that little cylinder inside the clutch with the holes drilled through the sides,
was pretty clogged up with friction material, worn off of the clutchs' fibre discs, and lots inbetween the discs etc

 

[user 9190]

Reckon all the filth in there was causing it to lock up? Hoping this wasn't just a temporary fix

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[my67xr]

yeah hopefully it was,
mine kept on going for another few months before the kickstart shaft broke.
i reckon it is sitting in pieces in my shed still.