1977 honda z50 build. My first bike

[coug67]

Just got this 1977 Honda z50a from my dad. Helped him move to a new house and he gave it to me in return. Which is awesome because I've always wanted one and love riding these. Friends always had stuff like this but we weren't as privlidged as them. haha. anyway,
My plans are to get it running and tinker with it for now. Later I will put in a bigger motor like a 125cc and really have some fun with it. This is just my little side project for when I can't work on my 67 Cougar.
I'm not wanting to restore it to stock. I want to keep it looking old school and modify it some.
My dad says it ran but one day just wouldn't start. I think it's not getting any spark. I will figure that out probably this weekend.
But there's a few other issues with it as far as the throttle. Instead of turning the right grip to give it gas we have to pull on the grip almost like were taking it off the handle bars to give it gas. it will return back. but I want to fix it so I can turn the handle like any other motor cycle.
Would it be easier to just buy a new throttle? Would a new throttle work better? and if so what size or specs would i need to get a new one? would anyone maybe post some links to good throttles for a 1977 z50?
maybe something like this? http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/01-0060/
I have never owned a motor cycle and never really messed with them. So I just want to get opinions from others that know better than i do before i go too far into it.
Thanks in advance

 

[timeeh]

I wouldn't bother with changing the throttle, just pul apart the one thats already on it and give it a good clean out with innox or something similar and at the same time spray some down the cable to free that up The rest of it looks like it'll clean up nicely, just gotta find yourself a new seat

 

[motodevo]

You'll probably find the slide piece(aluminium or magnesium from memory) that sits in the handle bar is worn so it doesnt bite when you roll the throttle. This type of internal setup isn't the best setup as even when fully lubed up with a new cable it struggles to return the throttle on its own. Probably why Honda went to the conventional style throttle housing on the next model and a few years earlier on the dax. Me personally i usually ditch them for a conventional throttle but plenty of prefer to run original style(one bonus is its like having cruise control)

 

[my67xr]

nice score there,

at least there are lots of places selling parts, eg - http://www.hondaminitrail.com/z50.html

 

[Shaneo]

First off, welcome to Miniriders mate

What you have is not actually a Z50A, as far as I can tell it is a Z50J1. (Feel free anyone to correct me if you know I'm wrong)

And as for parts..
https://japan.webike.net/
Webike is fantastic. **** loads of items, great prices and if your order is over about $530 shipping is free!
I've had many orders from them and everythings gone smooth as poo

good luck

 

[motodevo]

Its a US bike(vin plate different,headlight mounts,no indicator mounts,etc), they were still called a Z50A over there until the JZ i think(anyone correct me too), pretty much the same as our(aussie) J1. Thats why our J1 chainguard sticker says Z50A on it, Honda didnt bother changing the warning sticker for non US countries

 

[coug67]

Wow thanks for all the info and so quick! I was hoping for that. I zoomed in on the vin in one of the pictuers. looks like it is

Z50A-6215174

I hope that can clear up weather it's a J or an A I would like to know for sure. I assumed it was an A just because of the vin. Can anyone help me decode this vin?

I'm going to pick up the bike from my dads this weekend and going to try to get it running and maybe fix the throttle if it's not missing any parts. Might end up buying a new throttle especially if it will work better.

 

[zwebx]

Wow thanks for all the info and so quick! I was hoping for that. I zoomed in on the vin in one of the pictuers. looks like it is

Z50A-6215174

I hope that can clear up weather it's a J or an A I would like to know for sure. I assumed it was an A just because of the vin. Can anyone help me decode this vin?

I'm going to pick up the bike from my dads this weekend and going to try to get it running and maybe fix the throttle if it's not missing any parts. Might end up buying a new throttle especially if it will work better.

im pretty sure this is correct,
z50A = hardtail with adr
z50j = softtail with adr
z50r = softail w/o adr

thats what i have gathered anyway

 

[coug67]

Ok I got her running over the weekend but only for a minute or 2. It doesn't want to idle properly and was smoking out the tail pipe.
I started it back up maybe 20 min later. It ran for a second I gave it a little gas and it died. It hasnt started since. I took the carb apart and cleaned it twice. But I neever flushed the fuel system so I could have just clogged it up again. I changed the oil. I made sure it got spark by grounding the spark plug to te block an kicking it. But I still think I have some weird electrical problems going on.
Question: where is the kill switch? I have one switch on the left handle bar. And I think ones missing from the right handle bar. I'm starting to think te kill switch is gone and someone possibly rigged the head light switch to be the kill switch. Either that or it's shorting out somewhere seems the bike will fire up with the left handle bar switch all te way down and kills the motor when u flip it up to what I would think would be the on position. The writing on the switch is all faded can barely try to read it. Anyway. Let me know what you guys think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNSm9Lnh9s
I dont know if you can tell anything from this video. you can see me flick that switch in the off position. When i Had it running earlier it died when i flipped it to the on. but once I got it to where it was starting it would go pretty easily first kick. then run rough and die after a certain amount of time. so i decided to shoot a video of it running and of course it decided to quit on me when i busted out the camera.
Havent been able to start it since this. Ive tried probably 100 times haha. cleaned the carb again. and checked spark and all that good stuff. going to order a carb rebuild kit today when i find one.

You might notice i kind of fixed the throttle. but it wont return. going to get new bars and a new throttle eventually.

Also the carb seems to keep flooding. And I won't have to worry about flushing the gas anymore. I accidentally left the fuel turned on and it all dripped out over night through the carb. DOH!!! Btw is that normal for it to drain the tank if you leave the fuel valve open and let the bike sit?
I know for a fact I need to replace all the seals and jets in the carb cuz when it floods it comes out where the carb seals up where u connect the bowl to the carb.
And I'm gonna swing by the store and pick up a toggle switch and wire it in temporarily for now just to make sure the switch is working properly. Should ease the frustration of not knowing to have it on or off or if the switch is in fact off when it's off and on when it's on blah blah blah.

 

[coug67]

One more thing real quick! Anyone know what carb rebuilt kit to get? numbers on the carb read:
PA03A[C]CC7

if anyone can tell me and specs on what size (like 16mm or 18mm) to make it easier for me to find a rebuild kit. or if someone can post a link to a good one i would appreciate it.
I emailed a supplier that I'm pretty sure has the right kit. hope they will be able to verify for me.

 

[motodevo]

If it's running the stock aircleaner (which it looks like in the photos) it will be a 13mm (like a xr/Crf50 carb). At work now but will check the number of the carb when I get home and get you some part no's. If it won't idle its probably the pilot jet, whenyou look at the main jet there is a smaller brass tube next to it. I usually get a 5cc syringe and suck up some petrol and jam the end over that tube and push fuel through it until it's unblocks, easiest method I have found for cleaning the pilot on these baby carbs

 

[coug67]

If it's running the stock aircleaner (which it looks like in the photos) it will be a 13mm (like a xr/Crf50 carb). At work now but will check the number of the carb when I get home and get you some part no's. If it won't idle its probably the pilot jet, whenyou look at the main jet there is a smaller brass tube next to it. I usually get a 5cc syringe and suck up some petrol and jam the end over that tube and push fuel through it until it's unblocks, easiest method I have found for cleaning the pilot on these baby carbs

Thanks man I appreciate the help. when I cleaned the jets I didnt take them out i sprayed carb cleaner and air into them. so im going to take them out and do it right tonight. Like i said this is my first bike so im still learning.

I checked the timing and its spot on.
I put in a new kill switch. I took the spark plug out and grounded it on the block and it will only get spark with my kill switch on now so i dont have to play the guessing game wondering where to position the old switch. I just attached it with zip ties and black tape haha. but went to put the spark plug back in and got carried away and snapped it off in there. got it out and just went and got a replacement.
also purchased some feeler gauges and will check my valve clearances tonight.
I got all new gas in the tank but still worried about left over debris as inside the tank is a little bit rusted. need to install an in line fuel filter.
Hope it starts after all that. If not im going to buy a rebuild kit.

 

[coug67]

Welp. Found out why it's so hard to find a rebuilt kit for the carb. The jets aren't removable as in they dont screw out. Looke like they are pressed in. DUMB. Anyway. found the idle jet (i think thats what its called, not the main jet) is clogged. I cant take the jet out. I cant find a wire small enough and stiff enough to pass through. It's ridiculously small hole. So I'm either gonna just take it down to honda and have them unclog it or take all rubber seals out and boil it or somthing.

 

[zwebx]

Welp. Found out why it's so hard to find a rebuilt kit for the carb. The jets aren't removable as in they dont screw out. Looke like they are pressed in. DUMB. Anyway. found the idle jet (i think thats what its called, not the main jet) is clogged. I cant take the jet out. I cant find a wire small enough and stiff enough to pass through. It's ridiculously small hole. So I'm either gonna just take it down to honda and have them unclog it or take all rubber seals out and boil it or somthing.

if you have a old break cable or a bit of the end of your bicycle cable take a peice of wire off that it it may fit... thats what i use anyways

 

[coug67]

Well boys I got her runnin. Found a wire small enough. Came from a grocery store produce bag tie thing. ha.
Got it all cleaned up. Gapped the spark plug put everything back and it fired up first try. So far it fires first kick every time. Gonna get new fuel lines and a fuel filter so hopefully it doesnt happen again.
I know I have an exhaust leak you can see them in clear daylight. Who ever had it before my dad rigged some after market pipe to it and didnt really take the time to weld it all up right leaving holes. I have kind of a ticking noise and im convinced it's either an exhaust leak or my valves. Going to check the valves tonight I think.
Hers a link to the video. The first time i kicked it my foot actually slipped off the kick start. It really starts first kick. Tell me what you think about the noise coming from the motor. You can hear it especially well when I kill the motor.
Also Does anyone know what the valve adjustment should be? I heard .003 is good from another forum when I googled it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3JR2c7vSeQ&list=UUJwman28diMqJ5MhS5zVH4w&index=1



Anyway. Now that I got her running I can start working on getting it all cleaned up. Going to paint the gas tank and fenders. Need to find a new rear fender. Kill switch that is designed to mount to the handle bar. Head light. Seat cover. Stuff like that. Money is all tied up for now. Getting married next month. After that will have money to put into projects again.
Stoked for Sunday's time change. I don't have a garage (only a small patio deck) so lighting is limited on weekdays because I get off at 6. Stoked to have an extra hour daylight to tinker around with the bike.

Think I'm doing good for working on my first bike. I have plenty of experience with motors though mainly good ol fashion American V8 FORDS! Love workin on motors. Love figuring it all out and getting them runnin.

 

[my67xr]

you are making some nice progress mate,
now i see the ford connection too in your username, do you have a Cougar?

 

[coug67]

you are making some nice progress mate,
now i see the ford connection too in your username, do you have a Cougar?

I sure do. 67 xr7 289 c code.
I have a 5.0 motor from an 87 mustang I'm going to build on the side and possibly put it in the coug.
I have a thread on the car at classiccougarcommunity.com http://classiccougarcommunity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=930

How bout yourself? your user name 67xr(7?)

 

[my67xr]

sweet, looks like i'll have to check it out.....

yeah sure do,
i have a 1967 XR Fairmont, 4 door sedan, 351c (320 rwhp, mild motor), 4 speed Top Loader, 4.11 9" lsd
tiny pic in my signature below, i've owned it 29 years now. it's basically the same styling as the American 67 2 door Falcons, but ours were 4 door versions.
more pics here if you sift through them too.- http://s598.beta.photobucket.com/user/xrfairmont67/library/

 

[my67xr]

i just googled z50 1977 carburettor-

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-z50a-mini-trail-1977-usa_model7815/partslist/E++1301.html#results

 

[coug67]

i just googled z50 1977 carburettor-

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-z50a-mini-trail-1977-usa_model7815/partslist/E++1301.html#results

WOW! I just tried to google it again the way you phrased it and I still couldnt find it went all the way to page 10! So lame! You dont know how much I appreciate that link you just posted. lol. I could only find it on ebay for 60 bucks and then I could only find the seals at another site.

BTW That car is awesome! I want to put a 9 inch in my cougar with 3.75 gears and an AOD. I got a c4 in there right now so I dont want to go very high because I still like to cruise on the freeway.