HEX V ROUND Jets

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no_crf50_here

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What is the difference between the two jets for Mikuni Carby (a real one)

Hex has 150 printed on it was running middle clip about 1.7 turns out on my bike and ran PERFECT ----> Till i wanted a wanky exhaust now it's really rich bottom end and bogs down. Soo

Does any one know if they are interchangeable ( using a 100 round atm and still boggy but seems to work) or if they'll cause issues changing between the two?

Are the numbers the same between the two ?? I'm guessing they arn't as i think the round main jets are chinese and hex are jap?

jets.jpg
 
jet numbering should be the same providing you are using a mikuni round and not a keihin (thread slightly different but can be used)

obviously the carb you have started life using hex jets so the depth in the bowl shouldnt be an issue..

what engine you using these days and what pipe and carb.. might help us shoot in the right direction...

maybe a pic of the pipe too (is it the one in the FOTM thread?)... header diameter and length can change your tune big time...

150 main to start with is pretty big, you must have some CC's and good head.. but i have seen around 200cc's with ported tb head need more than 150 main..

tuning the main can be a pain as while your thinking its running fat its actually running lean and vice versa

edit** thought i might add that i am currently using a small round main in my oko with no ill effects, and also a 100 mikuni main is what 125's can use
 
Motor is a 175 bottom end + KLX 60mm block + TB V2 + this list is long so lets just say if there is a proformance part available it's fitted.

Pipe is in FOTM, 32mm (ID) exit then steps up to 55mm (OD) entering the muffler & muffler exit is 32mm (ID) and is the single best money i've spent on a bike ever!

If the numbers are the same i'll drop a 130 in and hope that works better. Its funny that it's running rich with better pipe and motor mods (+15% more hp) with the same carby i've been running for ever. (26mm Mikuni) - meh chinese motors who can pick them.

Option is i get a 28mm flat slide and see where i stand with that. Might even loose a little bottom end and gain up top. If the gearbox holds up that is.

*side note it was running a 17.5 pilot and i uped that to a 22.5 so might go back to the 17.5 with the 100 main and see how she goes.

*another side note I HATE TUNING - so much more fun to get on the black stuff :)
 
a pipe that size will be very boggy down low, its just way too big.. more **** factor than anything..

you'll find ya self tuning till the cows come home and never be happy.

id be dropping the header pipe size down to at least 30mm od
 
Just had a play 135main 15pilot and almost perfect i'll try again with the 17.5 gota start doing one thing at once. Also added more baffle and sealed up the pipe better.

**** factor was part of it but also in an effort to make it quiter was also a huge motovation for doing it. It's hard to do something new in pitbikes these days
 
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oh ok, that 2mm might just be enough to help.. small headers help with low end response..

i just got a custom pipe made for my 10' bike.. only going for around 110cc but leaving room for if i go bigger later to like 124cc.
using a 28mm od header into a bomb then steps up twice before it goes into the muffler

IMO 30mm id header is plenty big enough

IMAG1038.jpg
 
tyres are SAVA 12" MC31-S Racer
120 rear 80 front I THINK
Sava Tyres



Rims are Mobster 2 yrs or so old I think we paid $600 per set back then. VERY happy with the rims - I love to give them a hard time and they show no signs of fatigue (third set of tyres so far)
This is the only link i could find. From memory there is somewhere in the US you can buy them cheaper inc post.
Pit Bike Supermoto Mag Wheels - Mobster
 
There is a good thread on here some where that helped me heaps

How to tune a carburettor…

This guide will only cover problems associated with carburetion; any other problems cannot be fixed by adjusting the jetting but may appear as carburetion problems. So before you start make sure there are no air leaks where the carb attaches to the manifold – run the bike and spray the area with wd40 or any other aerosol, if the idle speed drops or increases then there is a leak and this must be fixed before any other changes are made. Also check that there is a good spark (fat and blue) by holding the spark plug by the HT lead against the head and kicking the engine over. A further test is to ensure there is compression by checking for resistance as the engine is kicked over. 
By using this guide and any others your research may come up with you can get your bike running better than so-called experts and save time and money on mechanics aswell as develop a useful talent that is a source of pride when you get it right or solve a problem. 

Now for jetting changes…
I usually start with the pilot circuit; problems here have an impact at surprisingly high throttle openings. Firstly adjust the idle, on a fully warmed up bike, to the required rpm. From here the mixture is adjusted for the fastest idle by adjusting the fuel and/or air screws. A fuel screw regulates the amount of air/fuel mixture moving into the carb while an air screw regulates the amount of air moving into the pilot (idle) circuit. Fuel screws are always found, IMHO, underneath the carb on the side of the intake manifold. Turning in this screw (gently!) limits fuel and leans the mixture while turning out richens the mixture. An air screw is found on the opposite side of the carb and not necessarily underneath. By turning in this screw the air movement into the pilot circuit is limited and the mixture is richened while turning out this screw leans the mixture. These differences can be seen in the attached pictures (Fuel Screw and Air Screw) with the following key: (blue area is air, orange area is fuel, green area is air/fuel mixture).
To tune turn in or out the screws independently of each other so that the idle is at its fastest then turn the idle back down to where it is required, blipping the throttle occasionally while adjusting. Repeat until any adjustment of either screw results in the idle decreasing, the idle is stabile and throttle response to a blip is clean with a quick return to idle. If the fuel screw is more than 4 turns out a larger pilot jet is needed, while if it’s in less than half a turn out a smaller pilot jet may be needed. An air screw out more than 2 turns needs a smaller pilot jet while if the screw is in only half a turn or less a bigger jet may be necessary. Both screws are measured in 360degree turns from fully seated, but be gentle the seats are delicate and turning in too hard will do damage.

The main jet is the next circuit I tune for. Warm the engine up with a fresh spark plug, then under load (high gear up a hill, decent revs) with full throttle run the bike for as long as possible (100m at least) then kill the engine with the kill switch, pull in the clutch and brake to a stop all at the same time – known as a plug chop. Take the plug out (before any other running of the engine) and examine the colour of the porcelain area – black means the main jet is too large (rich), while white means it is to small (lean). Change the jet size and repeat until spark plug colour is coffee coloured. 
A similar and complementary way to tune the main jet is to run at a constant speed up to an area where a mate can time you. When you cross the 1st mark go to full throttle, the jet that consistently gives you the fastest time between points A and B at full throttle is the right jet. 

The needle circuit is the most important area of carb jetting (because even on an underpowered pitbike you spend most of your time here) and probably the easiest to get right. You can perform a plug chop as above using half throttle or use the time technique described above. Adjust the needle by moving the E-clip up or down the notches on the needle. By moving the clip down the needle the needle is lifted out of the needle jet, richening the mixture at part throttle. By putting the clip higher on the needle the needle is lowered causing leaner conditions. Very lean needle settings will result in ‘stuttering’ power delivery while slightly rich or lean settings feel unresponsive. The ideal setting is that which feels ‘sharp’ without any hiccupping. Try all settings to get an idea of which is best, but it should be clear after only a few changes which dierction to move is the right one.

As a final note, changes in one of these three areas of jetting makes a negligable difference in the other areas. DO NOT try and fix a problem in one area with adjustments in the other two, fix the problem dont mask it. This should result in a carb that is 'seamless' to operate, that is you can do almost anything to the throttle and the bike will respond in a smooth and consistent way. There is a limit of course as to how seamless these old carb designs can be made to perform but it will certainly be better than stock. Any problems in power delivery require the tuning process be restarted or if the problem area can be identified adjusted directly.

TROUBLESHOOTING
This cannot be a comprehensive guide to problem solving but highlights some obvious and common problems.

Bike idles very high – too lean on pilot circuit, throttle piston the wrong way around, air leak at manifold.
Bike hiccups at idle – If the hiccup slightly slows the engine but doesn’t cut it out is a sign of rich pilot circuit (eight stroking). A louder hiccup that can stall the engine may be lean conditions spitting burning fuel back through the carb.
Black smoke out of exhaust – rich conditions at the throttle opening it occurs at.
Stuttering – If the bike stutters at full throttle but is alright at part throttle the problems lies in the main jet, if the bike is fine at full throttle but bogs down at part throttle the needle needs to be adjusted. By understanding which jet area of the carb is functioning at which throttle opening jetting problems are more easily fixed.
What jet sizes are best? - No one can tell you above a best guess, jetting is based on how and where you ride as well as the exact specifications of your bike. Variability between bikes is quite high with chinese imports making a blanket jetting setting impossible but even on better quality bikes good jetting may differ between otherwise identical bikes.

Please note that incorrect jetting or improper mechanical practice on your bike can result in damage, I take no responsibility for any problems you cause either directly or indirectly from what is in this guide. In other words if your unsure get someone knowledgeable to help if your not sure. Enjoy
Gawain 2008
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Thanks turtle, i've read teh first will have a look thru the link later on..

As a matter of record keeping

17.5 pilot + 100 main = fantastic (bloody awesome) topend and ZERO from low revs
 
Floating back to earth, still studders bottome end... But still a huge improvement so i'll take it to the track tomorow and either tune it or blow it up :)


And 15 pilot, 100 main, middle clip 4 turns out and full noise from idol to valve bounce! A few hot laps (on wet freshly mowed wet grass) and not a studder in sight TOUCH WOOD

In a few weeks i'll update this to include full specs so it may help someone else!
 
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Good work mate have fun at the track I'm still waiting on a head for the 80 so won't be out for a play tomozza catch ya next week
 
a mate of mine made the pipe, getting one for my crf70 style too..
old mate can make them to order but he is a bit slow time wise..

back on track... it seems very weird that an engine that size requires such a small main jet Pete. surely that pipe cant make the engine so efficient..
and does it rev nicely from half to wide open? like no stutters or anything!! oh and 4 turns out indicates a change in pilot jet needed..

id be dyno tuning the pilot and main
 
After some track time i'm happy but not overly impress with the improvement. Idle to 15% has a little studder if i twist it slow and steady - but snaping it open and leaving revs quite high result in impressive ability to rev like CRAZY with out valve bounce. 76km/ph in third. I was typically getting 85-88km/hr in top gear on the short straight but due to track being wet i wasn't too keen to push it thru the last corner in top gear.

Clutch was also an issue, so upgrading clutch taking the head off again and tinkering, and going larger carby and take it back out later on tonight if weather holds.

R&D can distroy a weekend or make it... Hope it makes it!!!
 
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