Problem starting Pit Pro 140cc

[Pit Pro Girl]

Hey all,

Brought my new Pit Pro 140cc about 3 weeks ago, and are having a hell of a game starting it. It keeps on kicking back, and really hurts when it does that. I cant even start it myself, I have to get my hubby to try and start it for me.
Its fine when it does run, apart from a bit of back fireing.

Can anybody help please?????????

 

[01nutracing]

It could be numerous things But the first is to make sure its at TDC when you kick. Then if its running too lean it can behave like that, I just went through it with my bike and it turned out to be sucking air through a cracked manifold seal. Clean out the carb and make sure the jets arent blocked, usually the pilot. While carbs off make sure that the mixture screw isnt screwed all the way in. If no luck make sure its not sucking air anywhere between the carby and head.

There are other things like valves etc. but just try these for now. You will probably find that the pilot jet is blocked from little bits of **** in the fuel tank. If so its always a good idea to run a inline fuel filter from your local bike shop for about 6-8 bucks. If the backfireing is a real sharp crackly sound then its lean and if its all burbly with smoke coming out the exhaust than its too rich.

 

[headsmess]

another lady joins the ranks who said girls dont ride?

ok... kickback. first up, starting....turn it over slowly til its just past the compression stroke, then kick it hard no throttle, or just barely cracking it open...

someone(the mountain?) even suggests put it in gear, and roll BACK until it locks up. then kick it.

what else? what sort of ignition does it have? the irk or ork? irk will tend to kick back more. spark is too advanced, and not enough flywheel weight. not usually adjustable if it has the ork.

the backfiring will be mainly a valve clearance issue.

sorry, i aint going to repeat anything again, except this>>> right click on search, open in new tab hope it helps. youll find all the info you need by doing that

 

[DvDRip]

read this thread from a couple weeks ago, everything you need to know about properly starting an engine and avoiding kickback and more
http://www.miniriders.com.au/mini-chat/23502-really-bad-kickback-my-pitpro-xr-140cc.html

 

[MitchAustralia]

lol thats my thread

 

[MitchAustralia]

Hey, as you have probably seen in that thread that DvDRip posted I have the exact same problem.
And I need to ask you something DvDRip or anyone else,
when I believe it is at TDC (when the kicking lever gives way) I bring it back up and kick
now this always happens, I hit a brick wall
so I've been told to kick after TDC so I do, but I hit a brick wall, so I bring it back up again and kick and hit another brick wall.
Its always 2 brick walls then it kicks properly but still gives the occasional, or regular I should say, kick back which kills my ankle.
the problem is that im very hesitant when kicking it because after finding out how hard it can kick back, I scared of kicking it.
So now I just bump start it, but if I get to the bottom of the hill and it hasnt started I will have to kick it so I need to figure out what im doing wrong with kick starting it.
sorry for asking my own questions in your thread Pit Pro Girl

 

[pbk]

whats the go with the 140 being a bitch to start??? when i had my 140 i found it heaps hard and the kick back hurt heaps...with the lifan 150 i hve it doednt kick back all apparently the 150s have a anti kick back mechanism wether this possible to put one in a 140 head i dunno i would need someone like cactus jack to confirm it

 

[MitchAustralia]

yeh thats an idea,
is there any way we can put an anti-kick back mechanism into the 140's
well I have a XR 140 if that would make a difference.

 

[DvDRip]

yes you can get a decompression cam, not the easiest mod to do

MitchAustralia If it's been this long and you're still having the problem you need to take my original advice and remove the stator cover, that way you'll know you'r doing it right, I used to have the same problem with my 140 until I did this

take off the cover on the left of the engine, it's 3 small bolts, then it will look like this:

the brass coloured thing is your flywheel, it has a marking on it "T" & "F" when the T is at 12 oclock your engine is at TDC, it passes the mark twice when kicking over but one of these passes is the commpression stroke, you'll know it's the commpression stroke because it's hard to kick.
now turn the killswitch OFF and kick the bike over slowly while looking at the flywheel, you'll get to the commpression stroke and see the T mark come up to the top, now push it carefully until it just goes past 12oclock, now turn the killswitch back on and give the kickstart one good hard kick, if the bike kicks back doing it like this then there's something wrong with it, and if you don't wanna hurt your foot when you stuff up you should be wearing boots anyway

 

[tormentandglory]

put a lifan 150 outer rotor ignition on it, it'll start heaps easier. I've been ranting about these ignitions for a while now, because they work. I've got a 59mm crank in my yx140 (150cc) with very high compression and it starts easy. But it is very important that the tune is correct. Try a pilot jet somewhere between 35/40 if you're using a keihin carb. I don't know what to suggest for a mikuni. I drill my jets to size...

 

[coolmodee01]

yep adjustable timing on that lifan rotor is sweet
ya advanceit to far and ya smash cases and kick gears like crazy

 

[tormentandglory]

the outer rotor kit with the big cdi box wont break cases, even if set at full advance. It will allow u about 20deg advance btdc at kicking speed, which will advance a further 13deg by about 4000rpm. I bought 2 engines from another miniriders member, both had broken cases from a cheap outer rotor. Now they are both running sweet with new cases and proper ignitions

 

[Cactus Jack]

Good one T&G and Coolie !!!!!!! I've been telling people to go with the Lifan 150 ORK too ... It's quite obvious that Lifan has fitted them to their 150's to address kick back and other associated problems ...

That's a NO BRAINER ... I bought several 150 ORK's to fit to my Lifan 140's and YX150 plus a modded Lifan 125 ...

It's surprising how many people still think their YX140 is a LIFAN 140 !!!!!!! ... Lifan 140's do NOT have an IRK on them , they do NOT have a GOLD coloured flywheel or an alloy cylinder with vertical fins and their engine number is 1P55FMJ ...

The only ignition systems that would likely be better are the actual Daytona 150 ORK , probably that POSH system with the Super Battle semi digital CDI box OR a Tokyo Mods Digital system which I've read is a modded CR125 ignition ... But be prepared to dig deep into your bank account for one of those ... In the end it's not so much about outright power ... but RELIABILITY and ease of starting ...

Broken motors and riders with tired legs tend to not go too fast or win any races ... LOL ... Maybe a Jesters hat and outfit should be supplied with every lesser ignition system that suffers from kick back ... ...

 

[Cactus Jack]

Mr Headsmess , I think the roll back idea was first mentioned in this old thread :

http://www.miniriders.com.au/tech-talk/17014-lifan-140-chewing-gears.html

Pitbikekid ... One explanation is that the Lifan 150's have a bigger cam fitted as stock from the factory than the ones in the 140's ... that along with the superior ignition system ... which you can buy on ebay for as low as $85 plus postage ... At that price why frig around with dopey IRK's that are well know to fry out early and cause a host of other unforseen problems ...

In one of the links to threads posted by other people ... there was one guy who stated that the Lifan ORK was better for motard since he could rail thru the corners faster due to less engine braking and get on the gas earlier out of turns ... THAT'S where races are won or lost ... cornering is everything ...

There's NOTHING worse than watching some clown crawling thru corners like a tortoise on a 2 stroke ... then trying to make up for it on the straights ...

 

[hazza2322blue]

That happened to my friends bike and all he did was adjusted the air and fuel mixture and it didnt do it animore also thats a good sign of lots of compresion

 

[headsmess]

In one of the links to threads posted by other people ... there was one guy who stated that the Lifan ORK was better for motard since he could rail thru the corners faster due to less engine braking and get on the gas earlier out of turns ... THAT'S where races are won or lost ... cornering is everything ...

There's NOTHING worse than watching some clown crawling thru corners like a tortoise on a 2 stroke ... then trying to make up for it on the straights ...

this just made me think of watching some race last night on TVS? i think... omfg that guy was crazy! lost it on the 2nd last lap from pole position, wet conditions. and in one lap was back at fourth... riding the absolute edge of the dry sections on the track, two wheel drifting, cutting em tight and overtaking about six people... was riding a cbr something... someone allander or similar....stupid memory...

meh, off topic

now onto magnetos...i think i mentioned having a gold coloured flywheel on a 140...it wasnt what it was fitted with when i got it, i just pulled that off of an old 125(the old chain into the pickup coil syndrome)...and found it ran like ****. it fitted , sure, but still ran like ****. and the other 140 has an irk fitted. theyre both 2nd hand freebies. tis all. not saying theyre stock standard, cus they aint. but are both definite lifan 140s with the stamped bolt heads etc

 

[Cactus Jack]

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular ... but a lot of people have Pitpro 140's which they think has a Lifan engine in it ... Check out Dvdrip's "Lifan 140" thread ... the engine he shows is a YX140 ... I'm just wondering how many people are knocking the Lifan 140 when it was a YX140 that stuffed up on 'em ... That could explain why Lifan kick start gears didn't fit ... YX140 trannies and cases are basically GPX Jialing 125 bottom ends ... even down to the 57 mm stroke crank and weak engine mount lugs ...

I actually emailed the guy who sells Pitpros and he said they removed the IRK's due to problems with 'em including kickback and stalling ... At the time he said most people liked their bikes with a stock heavy flywheel ignition ... easier to ride ... less complaints ...

When you read what Numroe says about his genuine Lifan 140 cracking the RHS engine case ... he had previously fitted an Akunar A1 torquer cam which works by raising cylinder pressure/compression at lower revs ... it also removes the stock Lifan anti kickback mech which definitely works because he said he could never feel where TDC was with the stock cam ...

The Lifan ORK solves the 'ol chain smashing the pickup off problem ...

http://www.miniriders.com.au/mini-chat/22221-moto-works-lifan-magneto.html

Info for running lights of a Lifan 150 ORK ... Tormentandglory mentioned the same thing ...

Getting a Lifan 150 engine to power lights - Pit Bike Club

 

[DvDRip]

that's right pitpro advertise their bikes as lifan 140's, so people just take their word for it
then I find out months later it's a YX
I think it was you that bought it to attention cactus, I was kinda shocked when I found out
no wonder those parts I got for it didn't fit as good as the old stuff

 

[MitchAustralia]

yes you can get a decompression cam, not the easiest mod to do

MitchAustralia If it's been this long and you're still having the problem you need to take my original advice and remove the stator cover, that way you'll know you'r doing it right, I used to have the same problem with my 140 until I did this

take off the cover on the left of the engine, it's 3 small bolts, then it will look like this:

the brass coloured thing is your flywheel, it has a marking on it "T" & "F" when the T is at 12 oclock your engine is at TDC, it passes the mark twice when kicking over but one of these passes is the commpression stroke, you'll know it's the commpression stroke because it's hard to kick.
now turn the killswitch OFF and kick the bike over slowly while looking at the flywheel, you'll get to the commpression stroke and see the T mark come up to the top, now push it carefully until it just goes past 12oclock, now turn the killswitch back on and give the kickstart one good hard kick, if the bike kicks back doing it like this then there's something wrong with it, and if you don't wanna hurt your foot when you stuff up you should be wearing boots anyway

Thanks for that,
I will do that on the weekend.
Just talked to Dad about all of the kickback thing again.
We have just been bump starting it now because we figured it was better for the engine and better for our feet
But recently we have had trouble even doing that. The engine would start up, we would give it a bit of throttle, but nothing.
Then it would just die on us. So we took the spark plug out and it was black and wet.
So we cleaned it and dried it, put it back in and we managed to kick start it.
Dad believed that the fuel is too rich and is drenching the spark plug in fuel, therefore we are unable to start it.
He said we will make some adjustments to that on the weekend. He said that it will just make starting it easier overall but it wont necessarily eliminate the kickback.
Also is it just a little screw that you tighten or loosen to adjust the amount of fuel going in?
What do you think about all of that?
And just simply, what is the best way to check for obvious causes of kickback or to decrease the amount of kickback?

Thanks, Mitch.

 

[DvDRip]

Also is it just a little screw that you tighten or loosen to adjust the amount of fuel going in?

yea it's just a screw but have fun trying to reach it, it's near impossible to get to without taking the carby off, that's why I bout a manifold adapter so I can have the carby sticking out to the left and I can reach the screw.
BUT, before that you need to adjust your valve clearances, set them at .003/.004 or .004/.004 look in the tutorial section for a guide on doing this, it's really easy and there's no point working on the carb if you're not sure about your valve clearance