running engine upright

[Sam-Q]

running engine upright / mini buggy design

Hi guys first post in these forums

I am looking into the option of using something like a 125cc loncin engine for a mini dune buggy. However due to where the chain comes out on these engines and the very compact size of the buggy I would want to run the engine not just upright but probably tilted backwards a bit. This would mean that up a steep hill the engine would be in a 180 degrees to normal position.

I was hoping someone would tell me how the oilpickup works in these things and what I might need to do to make it happen.

 

[The_GDFP]

Nope. Oil pickup is at the lower right front, right above the drain plug. Right where the case angles up toward the cylinder.

 

[Sam-Q]

ok thanks GDFP, so running the engine upside down will make it starve for sure then. Is it part of the casting itself or can I mod the engine to have an external oil drain and pickup?

 

[Sam-Q]

ah that's a better picture thanks.

Looks tricky to hook into, perhaps I can make a fitting just before the oil pump

 

[The_GDFP]

Might pull it off. Gerotor pumps have a pretty strong pull. Plenty of auto engines have well over a foot of intake pipe before the pump. I have pics some place of a double-stacked pump, the extra for turbo lube...

Prolly either tap in to the steel cover, just left of the lower countersunk screw, where the pickup passage is and plug the "normal" one. Or, make a fitting to run through the original drain plug hole and route an external line to the old case breather in the back. Use the braided clear line and you can watch the oil flow?

 

[Sam-Q]

ok thanks for the advice, it sounds good and I would atleast have some hope of doing so

 

[motodevo]

the other problem you'd face is the oil drains back from the head on the bottom side of the barrel. Not saying you couldn't do it but youre really reinventing the wheel here and if you did it prepare to sacrifice a few engines before you get it sorted. Got any pics of your buggy, might give us some suggestions for suitable engines

 

[Sam-Q]

the oil drain would be no issue as I would just have an external. An example is people putting the front wheel drive early Toyota celica engines (3sge) in rear wheel drive cars, this causes them to be upright and have oil drain issues from one side of the head. The later versions have a pipe off the head down to the sump. I would just do the same sort of thing.

I would carefully think about it and analise it before making any changes in the expectation (optermistic?) that nothing would go wrong. I just made this post here to give me a head start before I go out and buy something.

The other big issue I face is the cooling, the engine behind the seat would get very little cooling so I need to be very careful, I may need to have a form of forced cooling.

I don't have anything made yet, and I admit it does take me years to do things but I do eventually get there. I have some other priorities I need to take care of first that's all. To give you some idea though this is what I have in mind at this stage, of course it's open to change:

- around a 150cc engine

- super light weight hollow round pipe frame with press bent sections

- aluminium bash gaurds and floor-pan

- very minimalist design

- about the length of a go-cart but looking like a dune buggy with the exception of a fold up roll over loop

- 4 wheel suspension

- about 90 to 100kg wet

- quad bike wheels: front 7 and rear 8 inch rim diameters by memory

to achieve these very tough aims I would be making almost everything, because even the off the shelf hubs for the wheels would be way too heavy for me being cast iron and all. So I would make my own out of aluminium only having enough material for the job and so on. If it ended up being heavier then so be it.

Thanks for the input

 

[MuckUte]

After looking through this thread i have some hints for you.

the oil drain would be no issue as I would just have an external. An example is people putting the front wheel drive early Toyota celica engines (3sge) in rear wheel drive cars, this causes them to be upright and have oil drain issues from one side of the head. The later versions have a pipe off the head down to the sump. I would just do the same sort of thing.

I would carefully think about it and analise it before making any changes in the expectation (optermistic?) that nothing would go wrong. I just made this post here to give me a head start before I go out and buy something.

The other big issue I face is the cooling, the engine behind the seat would get very little cooling so I need to be very careful, I may need to have a form of forced cooling.

I don't see this causing an issue but an external oil cooler mounted near the front would help with engine temp.

I don't have anything made yet, and I admit it does take me years to do things but I do eventually get there. I have some other priorities I need to take care of first that's all. To give you some idea though this is what I have in mind at this stage, of course it's open to change:

- around a 150cc engine

Rather than mess with a horizontal engine, maybe this would be better
Vertical Engine

- super light weight hollow round pipe frame with press bent sections

CrMo tube or Aluminium? and i'm assuming you mean mandrel bends and not using a junk supercheap hydraulic bender.

- aluminium bash gaurds and floor-pan

- very minimalist design

- about the length of a go-cart but looking like a dune buggy with the exception of a fold up roll over loop

- 4 wheel suspension

Are you looking at 4 wheel independant or a solid rear axle?

- about 90 to 100kg wet

- quad bike wheels: front 7 and rear 8 inch rim diameters by memory

to achieve these very tough aims I would be making almost everything, because even the off the shelf hubs for the wheels would be way too heavy for me being cast iron and all. So I would make my own out of aluminium only having enough material for the job and so on. If it ended up being heavier then so be it.

If you are looking into weight saving there are alloy ATV hubs and wheels that will give a substantial weight saving over steel items.

Thanks for the input

Would love to see how this project pans out.

 

[Sam-Q]

thanks but unfortuently you will be waiting many years as I have a lot of other commitments to do first. I will get there eventually though.

I might make a mini mario kart style buggy first