Xr/klx mutant motor

[storminnorman07]

the cases i modded for this klx top end where not the best of cases. i was antsy and my pantsy after the first set of cases i did i didnt really look this set over well to make sure they where good. well that end up biting me in the arse. first it was the cases was all pitted and look like hell, then after doing all the welding and machinng for the new stud pattern i found the shift shaft hole in the cases was oblonged so it was either do another set of cases of bush it since there is a bunch of time welding and machining bushing it was what i opted for but have been putting it off for weeks cause 1 cheapest i found brass is about 50 us shipped for a lil 6 inch piece 2 being the holes are so oblonged it is darn near impossible to find a true center. so i moved on to tumbling and polishing the tranny which i found was JUNK i wouldn't even run that in a stocker for a trail beater. that was the last straw that broke the camels back i whipped the rack acrossed the garage through all my chit in a box and kiced under the bench. however i got a spurt of motivation tonight and started tackling some of the to do list to wrap this motor up. i first dove in on that shift shaft bushing figuring if it goes wrong i can start over again without being further involved in these cases. i successfully put the bushings in and got a nice .0015 inch interferance. i then jumped to the timing chain slide that bolts to the case. found center, drilled, spot faced and tapped. i then jumped to putting holes in the xr 80 cam gear to work with the yx cam. i still have not purchased a rotary table for my mill so i figured i could mic, math and indicate everythign out. well i was a little off its about 1/4 to 1/2 tooth off time. oh well looks like i'll have to get my arse in gear on picking up a table so i can slot it and get timing right. then again i could always fudge the lower sprocket on the crank a lil.
now the to do list goes like this. the gdfp is sending me a good tranny so once i get that in hand it will spend a few days tumbling then will get some refined hand polshing. make the bushings for bottom of the timing chain slide so its not sloppy, the other time chain slide that slides into the cylinder has to be morphed the bottom half that goes in the cases will be the xr slide the portion that slides in the cylinder will be klx i have one cut just have to figure length and put it together, the intake needs a couple spots of weld so i can mill flat and put holes to accept the carb boot right to the head, order a takegawa clutch and mag cover, then dry assemble clay the head check clearances prolly will have to fly cut the piston with this other cam i picked up clean up and assemble and motors done.

here are some progress pics for ya'll to enjoy

bushing for shift shaft

another view of shift shaft bushing

pilot hole for timing chain slide

hole tapped spot face and tightend for slide

panned out view to show slide in cases

 

[storminnorman07]

holes knocked in the xr cam gear for yx cam

different view of xr cam gear with new sprocket bolt location

spot faced for slide bolt

dry assembled

 

[Carlts]

Nice mate. stuff is way over my head but is looking sweet.

Regards
Carlton

 

[Minibiker05]

very nice to see it coming along and yer if things get to hard for me i normally throw them or something lol carnt wait too see it completed good luck

 

[Hillz]

looking forward to a video of it running ...

 

[storminnorman07]

looking forward to a video of it running ...

makes two of us. shortly after fire up and break in dyno time

 

[epod]

A rip snorter

Unreal norm i hope that thing is as fast as it looks. Would be so cool if if blows away a crf150. If only the chinese cases these days on fast motors were as strong as old honda xr cases we'd all be happy.
Ride on DD

 

[storminnorman07]

some more progress. pic 1 and 2 bushings for timing chain slide
pic 3 and 4 other slide cut down to fit the takegawa cylinder
pic 5 shows both slides in with adjuster in
pic 6 prepped intake for weld
pic 7 welded to mill down and put holes for carb boot

 

[storminnorman07]

 

[storminnorman07]

Unreal norm i hope that thing is as fast as it looks. Would be so cool if if blows away a crf150. If only the chinese cases these days on fast motors were as strong as old honda xr cases we'd all be happy.
Ride on DD

thank you. if my thinking is correct i say it will. the dynos i have found of stock 150rs are between 18-20hp. this head pulled 18.5hp with 172cc and a static compression ratio of just shy of 9:1 on a garbage yx bottom. with this new setup i'm going to start out w/ 188cc (already looking at cc sizes of 195, 205, 224 if i'm not happy with what i get on the dyno), compression ratio 12-12.5:1 nice low friction ceramic bearings through out the motor, the tranny will be polished for additional low friction, crank is a good margin lighter than the yx crank, also have another cam with more lift and duration to try. so with all thats being done from previous builds i have done i don't think its out of the question to pick up 3-3.5hp if not more from what i have done. but then again its all theory and it might scatter in a zillion pieces upon first fire up. if all goes accordingly i'm predicting i should have this whole build darn near finished within 2 months minus lil cosmetic parts. if there was only more time in a day i could get more done, either that or quit working and going to school lol

 

[The_GDFP]

Nice work, Chad. The usual for you I think the G/F is where you're missing out on good shop time. :ballchain: Get her a comfy chair and she can join you in the shop. Or a broom to help with chip detail. No???

You should have two more complete 80 trans' tomorrow, along with the rest of a medium flat rate box of goodies Just pick through the three trans' and send back the less-desirable parts.

Take a peek at the case area where the kicker gear is, and tell me if you see any thing stopping you from being able to open the hole enough to replace the kick shaft and gear without splitting cases. I don't see a problem. Aluminum sleeve in the spring holds the gear in place. Case should be of no consequence, in that spot. May ease your mind a bit about the lack of decomp. And... maybe you can see, on the stock/Tak heads, if you think there's room for a TB-type pop off valve? Looks like it. I'm gonna try it on that puny 145cc STII I'm building right now.

Found a more suitable CNC mill, yet? I need a 5.45" aluminum rod with 1.5" and .912 ends for my Killer Kohler 16hp I'm building to stick in the Cub Cadet 123. The 12hp in it is as old as the tractor, and under a year newer than me. Tired 476cc job pushes snow OK, but a fresh 607cc should be more better Getting a full treatment of thermal barrier/anti-friction/oil shedding coatings. Yep, I'll dyno it before install. I figure mid to high 20's, under 4K revs.

 

[storminnorman07]

Nice work, Chad. The usual for you I think the G/F is where you're missing out on good shop time. :ballchain: Get her a comfy chair and she can join you in the shop. Or a broom to help with chip detail. No???

You should have two more complete 80 trans' tomorrow, along with the rest of a medium flat rate box of goodies Just pick through the three trans' and send back the less-desirable parts.

Take a peek at the case area where the kicker gear is, and tell me if you see any thing stopping you from being able to open the hole enough to replace the kick shaft and gear without splitting cases. I don't see a problem. Aluminum sleeve in the spring holds the gear in place. Case should be of no consequence, in that spot. May ease your mind a bit about the lack of decomp. And... maybe you can see, on the stock/Tak heads, if you think there's room for a TB-type pop off valve? Looks like it. I'm gonna try it on that puny 145cc STII I'm building right now.

Found a more suitable CNC mill, yet? I need a 5.45" aluminum rod with 1.5" and .912 ends for my Killer Kohler 16hp I'm building to stick in the Cub Cadet 123. The 12hp in it is as old as the tractor, and under a year newer than me. Tired 476cc job pushes snow OK, but a fresh 607cc should be more better Getting a full treatment of thermal barrier/anti-friction/oil shedding coatings. Yep, I'll dyno it before install. I figure mid to high 20's, under 4K revs.

lol you could be right. dont worry when i find the time to finish her fender brackets i'm putting her lil a$$ to work tearing her bike down and prepping for p/c. i absolutely hate cleaning and prep work.

 

[storminnorman07]

Nice work, Chad. The usual for you I think the G/F is where you're missing out on good shop time. :ballchain: Get her a comfy chair and she can join you in the shop. Or a broom to help with chip detail. No???

You should have two more complete 80 trans' tomorrow, along with the rest of a medium flat rate box of goodies Just pick through the three trans' and send back the less-desirable parts.

Take a peek at the case area where the kicker gear is, and tell me if you see any thing stopping you from being able to open the hole enough to replace the kick shaft and gear without splitting cases. I don't see a problem. Aluminum sleeve in the spring holds the gear in place. Case should be of no consequence, in that spot. May ease your mind a bit about the lack of decomp. And... maybe you can see, on the stock/Tak heads, if you think there's room for a TB-type pop off valve? Looks like it. I'm gonna try it on that puny 145cc STII I'm building right now.

Found a more suitable CNC mill, yet? I need a 5.45" aluminum rod with 1.5" and .912 ends for my Killer Kohler 16hp I'm building to stick in the Cub Cadet 123. The 12hp in it is as old as the tractor, and under a year newer than me. Tired 476cc job pushes snow OK, but a fresh 607cc should be more better Getting a full treatment of thermal barrier/anti-friction/oil shedding coatings. Yep, I'll dyno it before install. I figure mid to high 20's, under 4K revs.

lol you could be right. dont worry when i find the time to finish her fender brackets i'm putting her lil a$$ to work tearing her bike down and prepping for p/c. i absolutely hate cleaning and prep work.

i cant wait for my box of goodies that way i can find a tranny that works start tumbling so i can wrap that up. any idea when your ordering from the mob again?

funny you should mention about making the the kicker hole bigger i was pondering that a few weeks ago when i figured i wouldn't be able to use the decomp cam due to i was using the xr cam gear. i also thought about the push button but heard they really dont give you all that much. if you would just stay shhh i can do a great job of lying to myself that the kicker gear isn't going to snap and i won't have to stessing :jumping-smiley-011:

no this cnc buisness is pricey!! i looked at some other units but again for what i would like to do with it they are to small. in order for it do what i want its going to be to big for the space i have left in my lil humble garage and alot of coin. i looked into the smithy retro fit cnc but like you said they are awful proud of that SOB! talked some more with some guys they gave me some sites to check into where guys have did their own retro fit on older smithys, shoptask, and grizzles. me and electronics/computers go together like water and oil no matter how much you shake those two together in a bottle they are never going to mix. i read through some of those guys writes up and was like huh? it might as well been in chinese. so until i find someone that can give me the dummies for cnc book or to hold my hand and baby sit me through setting my own retro fit up i'm prolly going to have to hold off on a cnc for a while. however i came acrossed a used taig in sandusky ohio. if this guy lets it go for what i offered him i'm going to pick it up. to small or not i think it would be neat to have for lil stuff. after the talk w/ the taig rep i don't think its capable of doing the backing plates out of solid chunk of aluminum. but i'm thinking if i did it in 2 pieces it would be fine. use the the cnc for the flat plate to get surfaces true holes drilled and notch for the wires. thats the most time consuming portion of the backplate. then manuel lathe the step for back plate to sit on for 80, and the 2 stepped piece w/ o ring groove for the 100. would be a lil more costly but still alot cheaper than manuelly machining the whole thing. ill keep you in the loop if i do pick it up or not.

lol instead of plowing a couple inches of snow plow a couple feet right?

 

[The_GDFP]

Gotta call the moose-humper soon. Parts going both ways across the border. Annoys both our invoice people:blah:
Whatcha need? Clutch & cover, stator cover should be in, any day now.

Should still be able to run the d-comp cam. Paying for the bugger is the hard part.

Map out that STG 1-2 head to transfer to a stock XR casting? Might be fun to Tak-ify a trashed OE head? Or pointless? lol See they "re-introduced" the ST 1-2 as "R-Stage"? Good to see. Still a viable head for less than monster mills.

 

[storminnorman07]

welds all prettied up

match to boot

left is revised bowl right side old port. new bowl is over a mill bigger in diameter and more distinct d shape

lil better view of the old smaller bowl

finished bowls

both bowls complete

finished revised port

 

[storminnorman07]

upside down view of revised port

 

[storminnorman07]

cutting it close?

cutting it close again i see chad

trail fitment of exhaust after hacking a new header up

lil closer view

 

[storminnorman07]

Gotta call the moose-humper soon. Parts going both ways across the border. Annoys both our invoice people:blah:
Whatcha need? Clutch & cover, stator cover should be in, any day now.

Should still be able to run the d-comp cam. Paying for the bugger is the hard part.

Map out that STG 1-2 head to transfer to a stock XR casting? Might be fun to Tak-ify a trashed OE head? Or pointless? lol See they "re-introduced" the ST 1-2 as "R-Stage"? Good to see. Still a viable head for less than monster mills.

yes i need the complete clutch setup and stator cover. let me know when it comes in i'm getting mighty close to being able to assemble

if i knew it would be a easy do this and the d-comp cam would work id jump on it. but i just have this feeling it would be a pain. would give me a fit getting the xr cam gear to work. but what really worries me, not knowing lift and duration numbers. if i remember correctly max lift before coil bind isnt much passed that of the stocker cam. so then i would have to wrestle with setting spring heights and being that i have ti valves it would be my luck that it would be so far off to keep pressures where i want them i would have to get new valves made at a fine retail price of about 190-200 a pop.

so takie did phase out the stage 1 and 2? when i got some time i was going to look into how hard it would be to take the stocker casting and turn it into a take stage 1 look alike. but like you said prolly pointless. o well least i know i'll have something to piss with when i'm done with my mutant build.

 

[The_GDFP]

I don't see the BBR d-comp cam having a more lift, since it's made for the 4V Kitaco. Maybe if you were shortening a +R version... I just looked, and see no reason you can't run the Tak cam as long as the lift doesn't foul your spring setup. Lots cheaper and I already need to get a big box from Japanada. Since the mechanism uses the bolts and center hub for location, it shouldn't matter that you have a #25 chain around the top instead of a silent-type. I'm gonna try one on my ported-but stock valve sized 4V so my e-start works better

BTW, you need to buy/grind a keeper groove cutting tool for the lathe so you can order valve blanks and save about half

 

[storminnorman07]

I don't see the BBR d-comp cam having a more lift, since it's made for the 4V Kitaco. Maybe if you were shortening a +R version... I just looked, and see no reason you can't run the Tak cam as long as the lift doesn't foul your spring setup. Lots cheaper and I already need to get a big box from Japanada. Since the mechanism uses the bolts and center hub for location, it shouldn't matter that you have a #25 chain around the top instead of a silent-type. I'm gonna try one on my ported-but stock valve sized 4V so my e-start works better

BTW, you need to buy/grind a keeper groove cutting tool for the lathe so you can order valve blanks and save about half

hmmm you got me thinking now. do you know anyone that has for sure specs on the cams?

i had a hss big i made a keeper groove cutter with. i don't remember where i heard of read it but i was either told or read on ti you should grind not turn it. i'm a dealer for kibble and what i paid for them to cut everything to size was like 20-30 more than the blank.