New pipe system , choices?

[pb performance]

Heres the pix !!!! theres 8 all up

Yep, From DHZ through Ebay !!! and this is what they sent both times !!!

 

[pb performance]

 

[pb performance]

There ya go hope they help !!!

 

[motoluver]

That is a very decent header for $100-150. The bends are still pipe bends but that would have to be one of the best cheap header I have seen. Pretty close to mandrel.

 

[crazzy #1]

whaaaa!! so the one on DHZ is not the actual thing (you wouldnt want to hope so)

 

[unit_mx]

that pipe looks amazing , Thanks heaps for putting that up. I just fanned of an email to Dhz asking them of the header pipe differences just to confirm that it has this header but i dare say that this will be the pipe to buy.Looks very nice

 

[MITTZ]

can someone pleaz tell me the differences between mandrel bent and pipe bends and whatever other types of bends there are?

 

[Cactus Jack]

Methods of tube bending ........

Here's a list of 4 different methods of mechanical tube/pipe bending .

1. Compression Bending / Rotary Draw Bending - Compression bending employs a bend die and counter die. The bend die remains in a static position while the counter die rotates around the bend die.

2. Press Bending - Press bending typically employs a hydraulic ram that is fitted with a bend die on the end of the ram. The tube is mounted in front of the ram and the ram moves forwards in to the counter dies. There are two counter dies employed. These counter dies move in opposite directions around the bend die.

3. Mandrel Bending - Mandrel benders are much like a compression bender, except that they allow for the bending of materials with much thinner walls. Mandrel machines do this by providing support to the inside of the material while the bend is being completed.

Diagram of mandrel bending tooling :

http://bii1.com/library/mandrel_tooling.pdf

4. Roll Bending - Roll Bending is typically used for rolling large center line radii. These machines are typically setup much like press benders except that they will roll the material between 3 rolls oriented in a pyramid to create a bend.

There are also heat bending methods used when building complex hand made custom pipes : ie Sand bends where the tubing is filled with tightly packed sand to stop the walls from crushing inwards or wrinkling while it's heated with an oxy torch and gradually bent ....... I watched it being done at Transfielder Engineering by a guy who was making exhaust systems for crop duster aircraft .

And there's also the hydroforming methods where the pipes are made from flat metal sheet cut to shape using templates , welded together along the seams with fittings attached at the ends , then pumped full of high pressure water .

Mick Abbey Tuning

Hydroformed 4 stroke pipe :

Micron Performance Exhaust Systems

 

[Cactus Jack]

[/QUOTE] I need to play with the jetting now My jetting was perfect before the pipe and now when I get to top rev's in 3rd it starts to bog a little and then bogs in 4th for most of it !!!

With my Bro's MSO Pro, as we all know they need rejetting out of the box which we haven't done yet as it wasn't to bad with the stock exhaust as long as you let it wind out in 3rd and 4th instead of just nailing it !!! But once the H-Bomb set up went on the bogging was to bad !!

We will be playing with the jets over the next few weeks to sort both bikes out but I assure you this pipe will crack once the jetting is right !! [/QUOTE]

Getting rid of that silly right angled "ZR" intake manifold will help you a lot , they don't work too good at higher revs and are smaller than the rear of your carby . Try a 56-2 DC Lifan manifold ($15 off DHZ) ... an even straighter intake would be better .

Also check to make sure that your exhaust gasket ring hasn't crushed flat and is obstructing the exhaust port and pipe . Make sure that the bore thru the header flange is larger than the exhaust port .... preferably 1 mm bigger all around to block exhaust back flow (reversion pulse waves) which messes up cylinder scavenging ... also you can grind the header flange inside to make it blend evenly all the way 'round where it merges into the pipe .

Your engine looks like a small valve Jingaling (23 mm inlet/20 mm exhaust) not too great for top end gas flow ... porting the Jialing head (without making the intake port opening bigger) will do wonders to stop the bogging along with sorting out the jetting .....

 

[50s BRotherhood #1]

very nice pipe pb. the last few i have been watching on ebay have been selling for 99 bucks. cant complain

 

[pb performance]

@ Motoluver
It's the best "cheaper" pipe I've seen also !! The pix actually make it look a little less mandrel then they are too !!
There not true mandrel but damn there close !!!

@ Crazzy #1
Thats right I got both our kits from DHZ and these are the pipes I was sent !!! I got my brothers pipe first and
after seeing it, I had to have one !!! I emailed DHZ to ask them if they had different colour flanges as my bro's was
Green, I wanted Red !!! But there reply was all the pipes we have are exactly the same as that one and all have the Green
flange !! The Green burnt off both the flanges after the first ride anyway !!

@ Unit MX
No probs Buddy !! I'd almost put money on it that the pipe you will receive will be the same as mine !! (as per my reply to CRAZZY #1)
and yeah I'm impressed with it... Money well spent I reckon, and I paid $170 delivered !!

@ 50s BRotherhood #1
Thanks mate !! I also noticed that DHZ have been listing them with a starting price of $99.. I'm not complaining at the $170 I
paid so yeah $99 + Delivery is just that much sweeter !!

 

[pb performance]

@ Cactus Jack

What else can I say but thanks heaps for all that info, Much appreciated !!!!

Your dead right on the ZR intake I haven't paid much attention to it before but that 2nd pic from the top makes it stand out
like dogs balls !!! Although I have match ported (to carby and head) and flowed it to the best of my ability... But I will get
the one from DHZ that you recommended and throw that on anyway cause as you said the straighter the better !!

Is this the one you mean or another one ?
NEW 26MM INLET MANIFOLD,GASKET, 125CC 140CC LIFAN DUCAR - eBay Other Makes, Bikes, Motorcycle Parts, Cars, Bikes Boats. (end time 11-Nov-07 23:06:42 AEDST)

I don't think the gasket is crushed flat but I will double check !! I have also ground out the weld and tidied the flow around the
header flange but I haven't enlarged it 1mm larger then the port so I will get on to that today !!!

and yes the head is a small valve Jialing head !! I just wish I knew what I was doing with porting heads but I just don't have the
confidence to start hacking away !!! so if I cant sort my bike by doing the above as well as playing with jets then I'll have to see
if I can find someone to do a little work on the head for me !!..

Also, With my brothers bike! It has a BVH Lifan motor, I think it's one of the 120cc motors as it's not a 140cc but it has the BVH, So it "shouldn't" be a porting issue should it?

Again, Thanks for all your help and info on this !!!

 

[MasterSpoon]

so with all this talk of people getting new exhausts whats the chance i could pick up your old ones cheap as?? I wanna have a crack at making up a cheap twin muffler setup.

 

[Cactus Jack]

NEW 26MM INLET MANIFOLD,GASKET, 125CC 140CC LIFAN DUCAR - eBay Other Makes, Bikes, Motorcycle Parts, Cars, Bikes Boats. (end time 11-Nov-07 23:06:42 AEDST)[/URL]

Again, Thanks for all your help and info on this !!!

Yes , that's the one ! Check your bro's bike out to see if it has the Lifan 56-2 DC manifold on it ..... if it has , try his carb and manifold on your bike first to see if it solves the bogging problem , then try your 26 mm carb on the manifold to see what happens ...... if your bro's bike has a ZR manifold as well then there's the common denominator accounting for the bogging on both bikes . That indicates that they can't keep up with the increased flow of the bigger pipes ..

I read on Mini Riders where everyone reckoned their DHZ's were bogging with the 30 mm Mikunis . The ZR manifolds usually come stock on DHZ bikes yet new 125/140 Lifan motors come supplied with the 56-2 DC ..... even when you buy a 30 mm kit from DHZ you get the ZR manifold for some strange reason ....

Lifan big valve heads have a 26 mm inlet port and a 25 mm exhaust port (that's what they have been machine bored to at the entrance and exit) but they are a lot smaller inside . The head I have here off a brand new 125 start in gear Lifan is pretty bodgy inside with a lot of casting core shift so it could do with a fair bit of straightening up and port flow "correction" work . Everything just works a hell of a lot better with a properly flowed head and it's all in the port shape .. not the size .

 

[orion125proseries06]

hey pb is the exhaust quiet cause right now i have a couple of brass fitting at the end of my pipe and that makes it quieter but still annoying some ppl

 

[pb performance]

@ orion125
No, there definately not quiet !!! There much louder then any standard pipe, most of which are fairly loud !!

@ Cactus Jack
OK, I'll buy one of the manifolds now !!

I'll also check my brothers manifold to see what it is and have a play !!!

Also !! Do you do port work for people like me that wouldn't have a clue on how to do it ???

Thanks again !!

 

[Cactus Jack]

If you take a good look at the pic of Motoluvers bike , you'll see that he has a 56-2 DC intake manifold and he says his bike runs great without bogging with the H-Bomb pipe and a #105 main jet .

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7449/img1113zp1.jpg

Are you talking about porting the Jialing head ? Yes I suppose I could help you out with it ........ but you should try to sort out the tuning with the pipe and 56-2 DC manifold first .........

It's a pity you live so far away because I like showing people how to do their own work ...... I have a 38 year old brother in law who I've showed how to do porting etc countless times but he simply can't pick it up ........ I'd say because he's lazy and doesn't have the patience . Porting can be tedious , time consuming work sometimes and small valve head exhaust ports aren't easy to get into around the valve guides either ........ Loncin 120 heads need a ton of work but the E-22's need far less . The big valve heads are so much easier to work on .....

 

[pb performance]

OK, 56-2 DC intake brought and paid for (just waiting delivery)

I'll try everything to sort it out at this end and I'll let you know how I go !!

thanks again

 

[Cactus Jack]

What diameter is your intake port ? ..... the 56-2 DC's are 25.5 I/D .....

 

[pb performance]

OK, I measured the opening and it's 28.5mm !!!

It looks like it's had the edge cleaned up and flared out .. Why to 28.5mm, I don't know !!