Looking for a good lifan powered bike

[jwe97015]

i paid 600 4 this down at three amigos there pocket bikes are dodey as **** but there pit bikes aint to bad had mine for 2 months nothings gone wrong just loctite all the engine and sprocket bolts 1 of my sprocket bolts came loose when i 1st got my chain was way 2 tight its got a good shock in it could do with a better swing arm and if u want sumthig a bit better got a 125cc lifan powered pit bike hydrolic front and rear susp and hd front and rear brakes upside down forks gears are all up manual clutch twin spare frame post pics if you want paid 1600 sell 4 1100 2 months old bougt same time as my red 1

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/blackcag/SA400018a.jpg

 

[illusivedreams]

Replay

I would like to know what the exact difference between the Zonger and the Lifan is.

I think that sellers are an asset to forums as they put you directly in touch with some products...but I hope that vested interests don't get in the way of what these forums are really about...accurate information.

Illusive....I thought Mack's question was fair enough so why evade it? I don't care if you've walked the Great Wall and back...I just want to know if you know any more than just the prices....

Ok Fair question I agree..

52.4 X 55.5mm Of lifan is different on The zonghen 54.02 x 54...Infact the motor are differnt the valve sizes are different...

The Lifan pictured is different class and is Better than the Zongshen Pictured in the previous post.....As for the motor below well a different cattle of fish........One of my favorite motors ever made....I have never sine one broken.to date.....Please note I dont carry this motor any more and will not in So no bias just my 2 cents

Now the Zonghen above is in the same class....And as Mack may agree actually has higher compression than the Lifan.....Cost In China Same.
Also Bolt on parts are plenty and some are interchangable with honda and Lifan

The Lifan motor is worth at least $400 in a shop .So is the Zongshen.
Mackas price reference is always of what he can get on eBay..

A Lifan motor sold on eBay at $170 is sold at a loss...In so eventaully the supplier will stop listing them .....


It annoys me because we need dealers . For help advice and so on...prices on eBay are dealers trying to clear stock or have too much of a model..And is not a an indiction of what the item is worth like Macka claims...

Having parts and a full time mechanic cost alot of money but provides you with unparalleld support and support the Australian industry......

Again not every one can change there own parts and take the gear box apart if something ever should go wrong....Some members here are under 10 years old......


I think the Lifan 120-125cc range are great motor ....Infact fantastic....

Again simillar to Zongshen they are one of the largest suppliers of Chinese motrs world wide.. But please understand I also know what things cost as I pay Zongshen,Loncin and many others at the end of the months....

I know you dont care but the idiot that let the Lifan go for $100 has lost close to $110....$100 on the motor and $10 on the eBay listing ..How long can he afford to do this? Its not business and when he goes bust...Where is the help and the support.?

Ooh yeah we can go on eBay and but another one for $120 from another idiot who has as much commn scence as a patatoe left in the sun


Guys I love bikes bit bikes to full size


I have a Suzuki GSXR600 a Suzuki RG250 and a Elstar Blade125 07" model.. I love riding and bike as longas I had my first pushhy when I was 3 .My company is here for the long haul although we are having it tough because we dont have support and service is not valued by you guys...You simply turn your back on us and buy of eBay,,,,The funny thing is so many of you have come in for help and parts...To my knowledge todate every single person that came in walked out with a smile and sometimes got the part for free even if it wasnt our bike...



Ps I hope there is no Hard feelings.
Enjoy Riding have fun.....
Vadim , Elstar Products

 

[Mack]

I think you have misunderstood me I wasn't questioning the higher dealer prices overall. I was questioning the higher value you stated the Zongshen had over the Lifan as if the zongshen was in general a higher class of engine. My response was to ask the difference between the two motors to clarify this statement

Lifan is actually cheeper than most run of the mill Loncin's They just have a great reputation in Aus....One of the most expensive motor you can use are the Zongshens..Most factory will not want you to use them as they cost more and take longer to get....

The two motors I posted actually are both 54 x 54 bore and stroke. They both have 78mm cast iron barrel. They both have 27/23 valve head. They both have the clutch mounted on the crank. The cases and internals are the same but they have different colour and the zonger has different tappet covers. For every configuration of the 54 x 54 motor Lifan has Zongshen has identical twin.Or if you like vice versa.

Both Lifan and Zongshen also put out a range of 55.5 x 52.4 bore & stroke motors with identical twins in each as well. If I really must, I can post pictures of just about each one and specs.

That zongshen you posted has a twin Lifan in all black too and its the one all the MSO & Monsoon's are shipping with currently. They are both 54 x 54 and have same specs as the two I posted previously and are same quality just that the two posted above are the electric start model of same engines.

Now be clear that I was not comparing any 120's to any 124's. Only each motor to its twin. When you say Zongshen is more expensive than Lifan I take it you mean the comparable engine from both brands.

I still don't get your reference to some sort of ebay fixation I may have. I mainly am concerned with the technical comparisons of engines and bikes and 'what is what' cause the dealers certainly either won't or can't tell you.
Any reference to ebay is in reply to "what is this?" "whats it worth?". This thread especially has nothing to do with ebay and I just don't get where your going with this accusation.
Now if you really want to discuss the ebay verses dealer thing fine. Hows this... I bet most regional pitbike owners local bike dealers don't know **** about these bikes and if they can get you parts want totally outrageous prices cause they still think 'japanese prices' and think they can make 300% on the china parts. Go check out the online fast fiddy stores selling honda parts and now stocking parts for china motors. Outrageous. Much cheaper for me to get from US dealers. Now I've also seen more people complaining of waiting months for parts, or no parts, or no return contact for weeks from dealers. The dealers have some work to do like I have said before, your rep will make or break you. Now reality is, that if the same part I want is on ebay for half (or more) the dealer price. And you both are 800 miles away so I can't get personal service anyway, which am I going to use? Ebay sellers are forced to look after you or get booted and you have ebay to go into bat for you if something isn't right. If you rip me off, I gotta virtually travel down south to heavy you to get results. Also most ebay sellers have your parts to you in days.

Now I've been in business myself for many years and I do know one thing. If you try to resist change or a different way to interact with the customer you'll just dissappear with the rest who didn't adapt. 99% of guys on here are gonna buy through ebay and that my friend is a business reality for you. You know this already, that is why you sell on ebay too. If you want to keep an actual dealership open you need to provide specialist services that we can't get off ebay. Within 12 months everyone with a china bike is gonna be screamin out for hop up parts and engine services and they are now. The specialist honda racing dealers are sort of filling this need but not satisfactorily at all. Minimotard and minimoto racing will be what drives this market and you can bet its gonna be huge. We are getting three new tracks built locally as I write. Guys who race spend big and regular and want professional engine services. Get in first, build a good rep, sponser some riders, ride yourself, experiment with stuff and have fun doing it and making shitloads. Once your name is big enough in the fiddy scene, people will pay what you want and will start to think your parts are somehow better than ebay parts even if their the same and you'll be laughing all the way to the bank. And I would say good on you cause yes we need these guys and I would use your services and buy parts.
I need about 1500 dollars worth of parts for three builds right now, but have to support US and Tiawanese dealers cause theres no choice. For plain parts Ebay of course....

 

[Mack]

..........

 

[illusivedreams]

We have a difference in opinion but I think for the benifit of the forum and its members..We should put our differences aside and leave it..

Hope thats ok John


Vadim....

 

[No-Fear]

keep it going dont stop, this is a good civilised debate, im loving it, lots of good talk/feedback.

 

[tysons_201]

very offtopic to my original thread but getting some useful information from it.

 

[Mack]

Yeah sorry tysons 201, but opinion doesn't have much to do with most statements regarding these engines. Fact is fact and fiction is fiction.

 

[tysons_201]

Do all these engines use the same mounts? if i bought a bike with a loncin engine in it could i change it over to a lifan engine easily?

 

[Max99]

I agree with no-fear…keep this thread going.
I wasn’t sure if I was throwing my hat in the ring with my last post, but I am now….
I basically want to buy a 2nd motor for me to build up. That way I won’t have my bike out of action if it takes me a little time. This would also allow me to compete in either the 125cc class with my stock (more or less) engine or in outlaw class with my worked engine.
As far as specs go, my choice of engine comes down to the 52.4 x 55.5 or the 54 x 54. I currently have the Lifan 54 x 54 but this issue of the clutch not being mounted on the primary shaft limiting the rev potential will probably make me choose the 52.4 x 55.5.
The next question (which has not really been answered to my satisfaction) is whether to buy Lifan or Zongshen for my second engine.
There have been a few claims made. On the e-store elstarproducts it states that “The Zongshen 125 ES Produces same power as Lifans with better reliability.” Is this your e-store illusive? If so, what do you base this ‘reliability’ claim on? Maybe in a year or two we might have a bit more feedback on reliability as the weaker motors start to **** themselves. I would believe a reliability claim over a ducar because I’m told they’re shiting themselves practically out of the box , even though some e-stores claim that they are the most reliable!
The thing I’m really hoping is that this forum will grow and function properly and not be an advertising space. It’s about hints and tips where good DIY’s can help wanna-be DIY’s. Good news for sellers is that DIY’s often spend money cause they’re enthused and it’s contagious.
My next question is again directed at illusive or any one else who could throw light on it….if both the Zongshen and Lifan 125’s are identical in every specification, how can the Zongshen have a higher compression ratio as you claimed in a previous post? The only way I know how to increase compression is with a domed piston or a thinner head gasket but surely they’d have the same compression in stock form. It’s worth noting that I have seen conflicting compression and power output claims by different sellers on identical engines.
As for the question of prices and ebay…………….
One great thing about ebay is that it is an open book if you choose to do your research. It really couldn’t work any other way. On elstarproducts I noticed that the last 5 Zongshen 125’s in the last month went for as cheap as $112.50 and as dear as $233.50. The average price was $194.71.
Illusive…you called some guy who let a Lifan go for $100 an “idiot” when you let the equivalent Zongshen go for only a little more! The trouble with reserves and ‘buy it now’ is that they don’t attract buyers huh? I think either motor is a great buy for around the $200 mark and that’s what I expect to pay when I decide which one.
Here’s my take…There are too many reasons as to why ebay sells stuff cheaper than retail to list. It is certainly not just because the products are all cheap crap or that the sellers are fly-by-night… even though a lot of it is….and a lot of them are.
If you’re smart in business you’ll cover your bases and keep a retail outlet with good support that builds confidence, and you’ll keep an e-store. The thing is that the psychology of selling on ebay some just don’t get.
Successful businesses spend heaps on advertising…why? To draw attention to their products.
Case in point…
The seller who is selling the Monsoon’s listed them pre-shipment with a reserve around the $850 mark. He was lucky to get 3 or 4 bidders and the auctions rarely got over $500 with reserve not met. Then he withdrew all reserve and suddenly there was 20 bidders and lots of attention around his product. The first went for around $500….then $550….then $600…..
About 8 bikes later he was getting pretty close to $750. It may have cost him a few $$$ but he generated interest in the same way that advertising does and every auction got higher. A good technique and money well spent (or lost)…..? I dunno, but his shipment is here and he now listed them as no auction, buy it now $847. Another idiot…illusive? We’ll see.
I’m sorry tysons if your thread has gotten off the beaten track…..we could always take it to a new thread….

 

[Mack]

The bore/stroke specs on the 120 motors your talking about are 52.4 x 55.5.

 

[Max99]

Sorry....just a typo....

 

[illusivedreams]

Max

We canned listing for over 4 weeks for the reason we were running a loss.

Butt business like Number 1 importer seem to like to de value motors by listing 5 an hours in the evening ..

I will conclude......Motors are a choice you make....I ride Suzuki for life .....Ie always by them....

I ride Zongshen had them loved them and to date yet to have to roll a bike back with a zongshen motor.

Again Lifans of all are great...In China these companies compete against one another....I say they are as good as one another.....

As we are completely out of stock of the blacktops...I woul buy lifan..

PS the silver top on Ebay is workhorse not a preformance motor...Alot of sales talk in the advertisement but thats it I was very creative that day...

The new Zongshen Black tops arrive in 30 days

We have to order 100 at a time as a minimum and the cost $130USD in China OOhh well...

All the best Boys and Im serious about the BBQ Next Months probably

 

[GENERAL125]

It would be prob good if Mack or someone with a bit of know in these china bikes could post up a pic specs of each of these common engines so people wanting to know the difference between them an which to buy can refer to ya pix an stats
Just an idea


Great thread keep it going >>>>>>>>>
and going an going !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Max99]

the silver top on Ebay is workhorse not a preformance motor...Alot of sales talk in the advertisement but thats it I was very creative that day...

Right….well in a round-a-bout way I think I know where you’re coming from now.
Dare I ask to you to specifically define a ‘workhorse’ vs a ‘performace’ engine….out of the box….? Don’t worry about it….it’s cool.
General…if you are interested in more specific info, I’m learning some good stuff on the US forum Planet Minis. If you're not already on there you should join. I’ll post up what I learn, as I research and get my head around it.

 

[GENERAL125]

Right?.well in a round-a-bout way I think I know where you?re coming from now.
Dare I ask to you to specifically define a ?workhorse? vs a ?performace? engine?.out of the box?.? Don?t worry about it?.it?s cool.
General?if you are interested in more specific info, I?m learning some good stuff on the US forum Planet Minis. If you're not already on there you should join. I?ll post up what I learn, as I research and get my head around it.[/QUOTE]


cool thanks will do